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Pearl Sutton

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One of my favorite pipe dreams is a company I’ll call Buy it Once. Feel free to start that company and get rich, I will happily buy from you.

The idea is they make things like appliances. And design them to not need replacing for a long time. Made to be easy to clean and maintain, easy to work on, easy to get parts. An example: refrigerators. They come in various sizes, various configurations (including totally configurable by the owner.) All of the fridges they make use the same compressor. The same door switch. The same fan. So if you need parts all you need to say to get what you need is “fridge compressor” no model or year, they all use the same one. And it doesn’t change. Doesn’t become hard to find. When you open the back it’s obvious how to replace it, no odd tools. Easy and quick. Do it yourself, or your neighbor can, or your niece.

I envision an industry that fixes things. You call and say fridge, they send out whoever is up next with a fridge kit, that has all the parts, not like there’s a lot, and they swap out parts. People can sign up whenever they have time. Think door dash for repairs. Some college kid shows up and does it cheap if you don’t want to.

Business makes more sales not by making their previous things obsolete but by adding more appliances (washing machines!) or more options (double size fridges!) But they all use the same parts, the same clear design, are easy to maintain, easy to clean.

I think someone who does this would get rich. I want to buy from a company like that.

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Nancy Reading

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I'd buy from a company like that!

Open source designs so you can get parts remade more easily
Designed for disassembly so you can get it apart for fixing/replacing (toasters I'm looking at you!)

I think it would be nice for the basic components to be upgradable too, so as technology moves on new motors/screens can replace the obsolete/broken one without needing to ditch the whole appliance.

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Timothy Norton

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I work in an industry with machines and parts that can be dated to the 1800s. There is something satisfying with the ability to rebuild a piece of equipment time and time again and getting reproducible results.

Yes, some of the equipment requires custom fabrication these days because the parts don't sit on the shelves at stores anymore. It still however has been economical, from the companies standpoint, to keep using this kind of equipment.

You know it is funny, I just helped my grandfather a year or two ago rebuild the innards of his washer and dryer. The appliances are older than I am, but they still work!

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Matt McSpadden

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Count me in!

There are 4 customers right here :)

Even things more complicated than a refrigerator or toaster could be built better. Not just quality, but the ability to easily replace parts and fix it. And re-using the same parts across models would be fantastic. I remember a company a while back that was making some household items with this mentality. Built to last and easily fixable. They made stuff like irons and brooms and whatnot. I wonder if they are still around.

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Nancy Reading

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Matt McSpadden wrote:Re-using the same parts across models would be fantastic. I remember a company a while back that was making some household items with this mentality. Built to last and easily fixable. They made stuff like irons and brooms and whatnot. I wonder if they are still around.

Speaking as a former engineer, making the same components common across models can also make the products cheaper to manufacture - think just one set of tools jigs, economies of scale....It was surprising (and annoying) to us when my husband was working on fixing other cars for a bit, how few manufacturers seem to take advantage of this, even sometimes on the same model!.

John F Dean

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Hi Nancy,

Interesting. In the early 70s my 65 Doge Dart broke down in nowhere Illinois …population 2000. It was the water pump. I pulled into the first gas station I could find (back then, gas stations did repairs). The mechanic found out it would take a week for a new water pump to be delivered. He pulled a water pump off a Ford Maverick, and it fit perfectly. It was clear the pump had multiple extra mounting holes so it could fit a variety of engines.

….give me coffee to do the things I can and bourbon to accept the things I can’t.

Jay Angler

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Hubby *loves* his electric frying pan. The plug-in temperature dial melted down one day after a couple of years of use. So he called the company, and no, even though this was a simple plug in part, for a pan that had all the data on the bottom, they could not send him a replacement piece. He had to buy a whole new pan*.

So, yeah, Ms Sutton gets my business too! Maybe reality isn't likely to be quite as long as her pipe dream, but we've gone way too far in the "cheap and disposable direction". All the "electronic, computerized" parts in modern equipment which too often are unavailable after even a year, are getting harder to avoid, so we keep patching up our old stuff in the hope we don't have to buy much new!

*If only he'd learn to use my big cast iron pan - no moving parts!

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Nancy Reading

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OK then!

Let's take on the challenge....What's the first consumer appliance we can make better?

John F Dean

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I’ll bite. Universal power cords. I know, this is not an appliance per se, but it is a source of frustration for me. My study presently has its floor covered with dozens of power cords that I am trying to figure out where they go & if they can be used.

….give me coffee to do the things I can and bourbon to accept the things I can’t.

Matt McSpadden

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John F Dean wrote:I’ll bite. Universal power cords. I know, this is not an appliance per se, but it is a source of frustration for me. My study presently has its floor covered with dozens of power cords that I am trying to figure out where they go & if they can be used.

There are a lot of electronics that all share a standard power cord... it would be nice if more things did.

I think refrigerators and freezers are the low hanging fruit. Not really any moving parts, and they are already fairly long lasting. Most households have at least one.

Nancy Reading

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John F Dean wrote:Universal power cords.

A little beyond my expertise (I was mech eng rather than elec eng...) however....

So powercords have two ends and a middle.
Function to carry the electric smoke from the mains socket to the appliance
Different flow rating for different appliances
May have transformer to change voltage for specific application (computer, hairdrier, desk fan)

Does that sound a starting point?

Matt McSpadden

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Nancy Reading wrote:A little beyond my expertise (I was mech eng rather than elec eng...) however....

So powercords have two ends and a middle.
Function to carry the electric smoke from the mains socket to the appliance
Different flow rating for different appliances
May have transformer to change voltage for specific application (computer, hairdrier, desk fan)

Does that sound a starting point?

Countries are already fairly standard on one end of the power cord. The in between just needs to be different gauge wires to handle the different flow rates. It is the end attached to the device that needs to be standardized.

Pearl Sutton

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I'm with Matt. Refrigerators and washing machines are what annoy me most.

Nancy Reading

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Assuming we're going for a US market, what specifications would we need? Can we combine elements of these sort of white goods? What functions do you want/need in them? Can we multi-funtion them in a permie style?

Timothy Norton

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If someone sold a lower-tech (no touch screens or fancy AI) appliance with 'guts' that are above minimum standards and are serviceable, I'd be a very happy man.

For washer dryers, I'd want something like Huebsch or Speed Queen in terms of reliability/quality. They are commercial units, but could last forever in a home.

Jay Angler

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John F Dean wrote:I’ll bite. Universal power cords. I know, this is not an appliance per se, but it is a source of frustration for me. My study presently has its floor covered with dozens of power cords that I am trying to figure out where they go & if they can be used.

Simple upgrade - have a long lasting sticker that in Plain English, states the electronic device the thing came with.

I've started putting that on with tape.

So long as there's enough info, many of them can be reused for other applications.

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Nancy Reading

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Matt McSpadden wrote:Countries are already fairly standard on one end of the power cord. The in between just needs to be different gauge wires to handle the different flow rates. It is the end attached to the device that needs to be standardized.

Hmm - many mains appliances tend to be wired in here. I'm not sure what makes things like monitors have plugs at both ends rather than be hard wired.

Some have 'kettle plugs'

I've always assumed that was down to the current requirement for higher power devices. Are these the same in US?

Smaller devices seem to have standardised on usb sockets - data and power in one.

I think USB A and C are the most common I see these days.

Probably in between these extremes is a whole raft of complexity....but is it needed?

John F Dean

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Yes, computers and printers have pretty standard power cords. It would be nice is electric skillets, coffee pots, etc could be added to that list. I could add more than a few other appliances, but we have a starting point.

….give me coffee to do the things I can and bourbon to accept the things I can’t.

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I was thinking about the same. It would not have any electronics - just rotate at different speeds and centrifugal speed. Either using reduction gears or some simple speed control Such washing machines existed in the past. People got convinced that they need more automation.
It would not be cheap being built from good components. Everything would have to be over-engineered. Maybe even using the word 'over engineering" is already a problem in the society. I would rather call it "engineering" and all the junk wold be "under-engineering". So everything would be thicker, better alloys and all materials, etc. It would be expensive. It could be made cheaper by economy of scale and local manufacturing.
The question is who would like to buy it except wealthier permies? Most people are conditioned to use less and less brain. They surely would like a product that lasts but not at the cost of losing any convenience or using more effort. I wish to be wrong.

My Sundanzer direct solar fridge is almost completely satisfying me. I keep it outside in the elements and it kept foods cold for us for the last 11 years. The only negative is, that being a top loader, it gets filthy very quickly. Also, no sun = no cold.

John F Dean

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Hi Nancy,

On my study floor are everything shown. I understand that we will be adopting the”European” C, but I have no idea as the the accuracy of that prediction.

….give me coffee to do the things I can and bourbon to accept the things I can’t.

Nancy Reading

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In my crystal ball I see that microtech - small appliances will remain the fastest moving area for changing technology and sockets....maybe C tomorrow, but I wouldn't put much money on it remaining that way.

I'm pretty sure that 'buy it once' would want to stick to long term devices. In my house bread-toasters (I think that's different to a US toaster oven though?) and kettles aren't about to go out of fashion quickly, fridge, freezer, washing machine and (guilty pleasure) magic washing-up machine. I'm not sure if air-friers and multi-cook pots/pressure cookers are here to stay or not? I have neither as yet, but may consider one if my microwave (aged 30 years) dies a death.

Other devices such as power tools - basic wood working like drill, power sander, circular saw? My husband has chosen a range of battery tools that all use the same battery as that tends to be the expensive part....

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This is right up my alley. The company I work for designs and builds pine furniture that is simple and long lasting and I often reuse other entire components when designing new pieces. This end table end will now be the end for a storage bench, and my coffee table top also doubles as a desk top etc. I've always been a fan of the "buy once, cry once" mentality, but I think in today's economy and so many different things begging for your dollars, we would have a heard time convincing enough people to spend the extra money (think much much extra) to make this a reasonable venture. There is a reason that we live in a throw away economy, and I believe it's what the market demands. We have our choice of shopping with the local hardware store and paying a little more for a higher quality product or going to the big box store and picking up what we need, plus some groceries, and a new belt, kit-kat on the way out. Clearly most choose the later (I know this crowd on here may be the exception). The problem with manufacturing anything like this would be being able to source and secure parts for build and repairs on an ongoing basis when you are a tiny tiny fish in the pond. If you choose a motor currently in production, there is no guarantee that the same motor will be in production in five years or five months if the main user or manufacturer of it does a design change. I don't like being the fly in the ointment, and I'd be the first in line if someone figures it out, but in my humble opinion, this would be dead on arrival.

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Jay Angler

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Timothy Norton wrote:If someone sold a lower-tech (no touch screens or fancy AI) appliance with 'guts' that are above minimum standards and are serviceable, I'd be a very happy man.

Exactly this - touch screens and fancy AI drive Hubby and I up the wall. Me when I turn it into a brick because I'm a Dinosaur with bad magnetic resonance, and Hubby because he gets stuck fixing them.

There is a clock on the dining table that even with the instructions, I can't set. It's on my list to ask my DiL to as it seems to play nice with her, but it lost it's marbles when I tried to plug my phone charging cord into it. Why can't clocks have simple knobs to adjust?

Nancy Reading wrote: Hmm - many mains appliances tend to be wired in here. I'm not sure what makes things like monitors have plugs at both ends rather than be hard wired.

My kettle has had a fault in its cord at least three times in its life of over 30 years. The cord is getting almost too short to be of use... sigh... The "kettle plugs" you pictured would be great if they were reasonably universal and easy to simply buy a new one of the correct type.

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T Melville

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Framework. It's a company trying to bring this idea to computers. Most internal components have a QR code that will fetch instructions with videos. Lots of input/ output (I/O) options that you can swap out. They're built into little modules that slide into little bays. They plug into USB-C ports inside the computer, but on the outside they can be USB-A, USB-C, HDMI, Display port, Headphone/ microphone jack, SD or microSD card slots, removable storage drives, maybe a few other things I forgot.

In the video, Linus removes the 2 spacers flanking the keyboard, moves the keyboard to one side and adds a numpad.

They look to be all about right-to-repair, upgradability and generally not having to throw away good components when one part breaks. They are kinda pricey, which is why I don't own one, but they seem to be competitive with high end brands.

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Nancy Reading

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Oh that's good! I wouldn't fancy trying to design consumer electronics....Maybe we can go back to clockwork and knobs - like on my Dualit toaster and make the appliances a bit more robust/fixable that way.

Jay Angler

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Nancy Reading wrote:...Maybe we can go back to clockwork and knobs

I read somewhere, some time ago, that the reason touch screens were invented was because some famous person (I believe related to Apple Computers) had a phobia of pushing buttons.

There's a good chance that rumor is any of: exaggeration, urban legend, false news, someone's idea of a joke, or add your own idea, but I've also read that companies are finally getting push-back and hopefully that's accurate.

Ergonomics is a thing, as is touch typing (which doesn't work on a touch screen). We are way overdue for that pushback and greatly in need of simple, robust connections that don't require a computer to operate. We are starting to see that pushback in cars where people are discovering that when that fancy tail-light burns out a single LED, they have to replace the entire unit at hundreds of dollars cost - assuming the part is even available - instead of grabbing a new bulb at a local hardware store and installing it themselves.

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